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8:01 am
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February 3, 2013
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I know we cant change the rules and the middle of the game and i am not asking to just want to throw this out and see what happens. I would like to see a bow hunting class added in the future. Most of the new bows now are fast dont have to tell any one that. My bow off the shelf with a hunting arrow is shootig well over 300fps . Last year i turned it down to 50 pounds to be able to compete but mostly i shoot Bha to practice for hunting and spend time with my family and friends in the outdoors, and i will proceed to do so on a fun level . Does any one eles feel this way we are a bow hunting organzation and i would like to be able to practice and compete with what i plan on taking up a tree in the fall. And again i love BHA and will always support what it stands, for lets hear your ideas .
9:24 am
Life Member
October 24, 2012
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Jeremy- My son-in-law goes with me to some of the 3-D shoots. He has is bow shooting over 290fps and says he does not want to turn it down because he wants to hunt with the same bow and practice with it during the 3-D season. He, therefore, shoots for fun and does not compete….except for trying to beat me…
I shoot the same bow all year. The same set-up. All I do is change to broadheads for hunting season. I shoot this bow at 286fps. I figure that at 20-30 yards my arrow speed will not make a huge difference in taking a deer. Bumping it up to 300fps and adding 14fps ain’t no big deal.
Most of the guys shooting Bowhunter in BHA either shoot the same bow or have a 3-D setup bow and a hunting bow.
Adding another class for shooters that want to go over 286fps probably would only draw few shooters. We have Bowhunter A (max 40 yds. and Bowhunter B (max 30 yds.). These classes incorporate most of the bowhunter set-ups used in hunting…except for speed…and that is a rule to keep everyone competitive.
A bowhunter with a speed bow (over 286) can always just shoot for fun with a group that wants to shoot faster…you can always wager lunch or a coke if you want to compete…heck, our group usually does that anyway!
10:46 pm
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Life Member
October 24, 2012
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With technology advancing as it has in the past few years, particularly in regard to archery, I too have “dabbled” with speed, particularly focusing on speed in my hunting bow. My own experience has proven to be, to some degree, disappointing; meaning that I have not been able to prove that speed & accuracy run hand in hand. This is not to say that somewhere out there a manufacturer has built a bow that can shoot 300fps with great accuracy! I’ve even “cranked” my hunting bow up to, at one point 329fps! The disappointment I found was in the fact that the bow was not nearly as forgiving, nor cosistently accurate. However, I’ve found that setting my bow up to where it is most “comfortable” for me, which is pulling anywhere from 55 to 65 pounds, firing arrows at anywhere from 260 to 285fps or so produced the consistency I look for. And physics will prove that a razor tipped projectile zipping at that speed will blow right through most anything I’m ever gonna take a shot at. I know the rule, as it is right now is at 280fps with a 3% variance to compensate for differences in chronographs. But, I would not vote against allowing the highest speed possible, someday in the future, if for no other reason than to prove that speed and accuracy do not necessarily run hand in hand.
Kevin Ivey
President
Marshall County Bowhunters
Life Member #133
5:58 pm
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January 15, 2013
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Most other states have A class like you the one you are talking about. I do think there should be some rule but I don’t know what would.make everyone happy. BHA is sometimes slow to rule changes but some locals will have differnet classes on the local level
8:49 am
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November 5, 2012
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Just curious how many that shoot in bowhunter class carry them bright shiny colorfull bow up a tree or to the blind ?
9:41 am
Life Member
October 24, 2012
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That’s a good question khooper… but we don’t put fox urine on our boots, either…cause, probably, no one would shoot with us….:)
Remember, that we have rules for competition purposes and not actual “bowhunting” setups. Bowhunter class is as close as we get to “bowhunting” setups. The limitations on this class keeps everyone on a level field for competition purposes only.
9:41 am
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November 5, 2012
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Also i wonder how many deer are shot with those big fat line cutter arrows ! In my oppinion bow hunter class should be bow hunting equipment !
9:46 am
Life Member
October 24, 2012
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Also remember…that if you are discussing bowhunting equipment with a traditional bowhunter, he or she might ask why you are using a compound bow, carbon arrows, a sight and a drop-away rest. Possibly, in their opinion, you are not using bow hunting equipment…………
9:51 am
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November 5, 2012
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I love shooting when possible .All im saying is it would be nice to shoot against bowhunters shooting bowhunting equipment !
10:53 am
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February 3, 2013
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Thanks for your post Kieth i agree i can not compete in a bow hunting class because may bow is to fast but i could shoot an arrow big as a broom handle with glue in points that we are sure most people are not going to hunt with . To go from target shootin to bow hunting all I HAVE to do is srcrew on broad heads and in my opinon thats a hunting rig just saying
1:24 pm
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November 5, 2012
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Amen Jeremy !
3:09 pm
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October 24, 2012
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We have hashed this out so many times. We definitely do not need any more classes. We need to do away with half that already exist. When I get time; I am going to write a 20 page article on the history and evolution of why we are at the point of all these classes and the rule changes that have been made. I understand your interest and your thoughts but think about why you want the class. Ability is how we should be approaching classes and the benefit of accessories. What advantage does a 350 grain arrow with a glue in point give you over a arrow 350 grain with a screw in point? None except you don’t have to tighten the point and damage the target when you pull it! We used to have glue in broadheads when I started. These minor details do not make a difference. We are bowhunters out shooting our bows for competition and it is fun because it is COMPETITION on 3D targets. We could start turning real deer out ;but it is illegal to do so. The whole idea is to get out in the woods and shoot your bow to get better so you can make ethical shots. Shooting a dinosaur or bigfoot just makes you learn how to put your arrow where you want it to go . We used to shoot pretty much all deer targets at the State shoots.It was a better competition to mix it up. We have come a long way and the game is all about fair competition.
3:47 pm
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October 24, 2012
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One thing to address was the speed issue. When we all started ; alot of shooters were shooting 80 pounds just to get up to 250 fps. Most everyone was shooting overdraws and that was a big concern. Every year the discussion was on the safety of an arrow behind the riser. Rules were made so you could only shoot a manufactured overdraw. Now I hardly ever see an overdraw because there is no need for one. Bows have gotten better and faster and it is very easy to shoot over 300 fps with just normal setups that are safe. Many hunters are using 300 plus setups with expandable broadheads and having great success. The real factor as all hunters know is kinetic energy . With more kinetic energy comes penetration and target damage. IBO elected first to allow only 5 grains per pound to control the safety issues of putting stress on the bows by shooting faster. ASA came up with a 280fps speed limit to create a fair baisis to compete . BHA adopted the 280fps behind these organizations and it has been the yard stick to measure and regulate. Now we are faced with some changes by ASA increasing their speed to 290fps to handle the out of the box bows shooting so fast. With speed comes target damage and also cost. Shooting 290 is not a safety issue anymore and the only reason not to increase is target damage. We had 7 shooters that came to Autauga last week shooting over 287fps and either shot for fun or turned their bows down to shoot. The debate will be over speed and target damage. I like many of the above comments and I am looking forward to the discussion in the future. I see no real advantage to speed in the close distances . I only see it as an advantage in the 40 yard plus classes. I believe target damage should really be thought about before increasing the speed across the board.
8:40 am
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February 3, 2013
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Leldon thats my point to a tee i also rember shooting 80 pounds and doing every thing we could to get more speed . But now we are talking about bows out of the box shooting very fast my bow on 62 pounds is shooting 301 feet per second .Faster bows are becoming the norm also on target damage issue i could set up my bow with some x killers and those needle points i have seen some people using and in my frame of mind over time would cause a lot more damage than a standard size hunting shaft.I am not craying about the rules that are in place i will still come out and shoot for fun with the set up i intend to carry up a tree on opening day and enjoy doing it with my friends and family and all the new friends all will make enjoying 3D archery.Just think in the future the speed issue may need to be adressed because i think there are a lot of other people out there who have high performace hunting bows who would like to compete with them because we are talking about off the shelf bows with no special work to easily reach speeds of 300fps and better.
12:57 pm
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October 24, 2012
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I agree with you on most of comments. The thing is it is not all about speed. The weight of the arrow and the total kinetic energy is what does target damage. Close shots increase damage versus a longer shot that the arrow has lost KE. A small diameter penetrates better. Personally in this age of technology; it is time to discuss and look hard at increasing speed. I do not agree that we need another class but to revise the ones we already have in place. I go to ASA and shoot 290 and then come home and turn my bow down to shoot BHA. I don’t like it but it is the rules as they are written now.
10:10 pm
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January 15, 2013
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How many bowhunters judge yardage anymore…I remember having yardage markers around my treestand becasuse randgefinders were not around.
10:31 am
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October 24, 2012
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My thinking is that the targets don’t like high energy arrows. If higher energy arrows are used maybe a higher fee for shooting the course should be requested. My 46 lb bow shooting a 300 grain arrow at 240 fps probably does less damage to the target than a 70 lb bow shooting a 350 grain arrow at 300 fps.
Just a though.
10:41 pm
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February 27, 2013
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My only concern on the speed limit is not to cheat or make it easy or to hurt the club. Its my 30 inch draw length. I got mine legal but all that i have done has drastically hurt the way it shoots. Lots of hand vibration and tears up my silencers and rubber stops. I am also nervous of buying a newer bow cause they are faster than my admiral. The first day i bought it in 2009 i shot 311 with it turned down to 60lbs and at 70lbs over 320. But metal D loop and several other things we did has it barely slow enough so i can compete. It is just not as good of a shooter as it was the day i bought it. I hope bha raises it next year because its time to trade bows
8:15 am
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February 3, 2013
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Thanks Chris that the point i was trying to make withn this thread . They are not making slower bows just faster ones thats what the archery companies are striving for faster smoother and more forgiving . And Shogun I do under stand from time to time bows come out of tune or just need a little tweaking and you always need to keep a close chaeck on equiment we owe it to the game we hunt. But I can shoot 3D on Saturday morning and get in a turkey blind in the afternoon if i choose to with only a few practice shots in between. And was not trying to run down any equiment one decides to shoot just asking what others thought on speed limts used to we tried to make our bows faster now if we want compete we have to try and make them slower . And its not just in class i shoot my eleven year old has to turn his bow down when we go to and ASA shoot .This is the last post i will make on this thread and i aplogize if i steped on any toes that was not my intenion just wanted to see what others feel about mainly on speed limits .
9:09 am
In my opinion the speed limit needs to be increased. Technology has come too far and we need to adjust. If target damage is an issue then the target manufacturers need to make better targets.
More classes? The only place I would consider adding a class would be to separate youth and juniors into bowhunter and open classes.
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